Present Notes:
Seize your espresso and get cozy for an thrilling episode of SLP Espresso Speak! This week, Hallie chats with the superb Brittney Adler—a neurodiversity-affirming SLP who’s all about celebrating the distinctive methods neurodivergent children talk. Brittney works her magic with AAC, gestalt language processing, and sensory-based methods to assist children with excessive assist wants shine.
Collectively, Hallie and Brittney unpack the age-old “following instructions” objectives, shake up compliance-based practices, and share enjoyable, sensible methods to show self-advocacy and independence. It’s an episode full of guffaws, aha moments, and recent takes to encourage your remedy periods. Whether or not you’re a seasoned SLP or new to the sphere, this one’s for you!
This is what we realized:
- Breaking down the nuances of following instructions: compliance vs. comprehension.
- The shift from compliance to educating self-advocacy and independence.
- Why child-led remedy isn’t simply efficient—it’s a recreation changer for planning.
- Sensible, on a regular basis methods to make speech objectives related and useful.
- A recent perspective on receptive language objectives in class settings.
- Encouragement to observe your instincts and embrace neuroaffirming approaches.
RESOURCES
Be taught extra about Brittney Adler:
💜 Instagram: @nycslpb
💜 TikTok:@nycslpb
Be taught extra about Hallie Sherman and SLP Elevate:
🎧 Check out the Secondary Secret Podcast here!
JOKE OF THE WEEK:
Q: So why did the scholar throw her be careful of the varsity window?
A: She wished to see time fly.
The place We Can Join:
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TRANSCRIPT
00:00:00 Hallie: Hey there SLP, working with grades 4 by way of 12. New college 12 months, new you. Let’s not go into this college 12 months feeling overwhelmed and behind on paperwork. Let’s not fear about college students asking why they’re coming to speech. Let’s not have college students shrug of their shoulders and taking a look at you saying, why am I right here? I do not wanna be right here. Let’s as a substitute have your college students excited to come back to speech, able to tackle the challenges you present and make huge progress in direction of their objectives.
00:00:30 Hallie: If you’re able to make this college 12 months, the 12 months that you just go away work promptly on the finish of the day, plan in an hour or much less per week and go into each session assured that your college students will grasp the session goals, then SLP Elevate is simply what it is advisable to make this college 12 months a profitable one. Both go to slpelevate.com or ship me a DM on Instagram with the phrase membership, C-U-L-B, and we are able to talk about if SLP Elevate is best for you and your college students. Now’s the time to get your time again. And now’s the time to get your college students excited to come back to speech. SLP Elevate is ideal for you.
00:01:15 Hallie: Welcome to SLP Espresso Speak, the podcast designed solely for speech language pathologists who work with older college students, grades 4 by way of 12. I’m your host, Hallie Sherman, your SLP behind Speech Time Enjoyable, the Speech Retreat Convention, and the SLP Elevate membership. And I am thrilled to carry you conversations, methods, and insights that gives you the jolt of inspiration that you just want. Whether or not you are tuning in throughout your morning commute, on a break in between periods, or rest time. I’m right here for you every week. Let’s do that SLPs.
00:01:55 Hallie: Hey, hey, and welcome to a different episode of SLP Espresso Speak. At present I’ve Brittney Adler right here and we’re gonna be speaking all issues neurodiversity, following instructions, all issues I do know you guys are gonna love. So Brittney, welcome to the present.
00:02:13 Brittney: Hello, thanks a lot for having me. I am so excited. So I, sure, I am a really massive advocate for neuroaffirming remedy. And so I feel that I actually figured that out in grad college and I like Jessie Ginsburg, my sensory SLP. So I got here throughout her stuff and it simply resonated with me. It made sense. So I did my fellowship in New York Metropolis at a non-public college and now I am at a unique non-public college supporting children with just a bit bit increased assist wants, extra AAC, issues like that.
00:02:52 Hallie: I find it irresistible. And we met in individual on the Smile, Swoosh, Speech Comedy Present over this summer season. And I knew that I needed to get you on the podcast since we jived so properly. So for anybody that was there, Brittney was there as properly. Cannot look ahead to the following one this summer season. However inform us a bit bit, what’s compliance and what’s comprehension? Let’s begin there. Are you able to inform us a bit bit about that?
00:03:19 Brittney: Yeah, I feel that one of many greatest issues that I used to be scuffling with after I was writing objectives this 12 months is like, how do you measure what are they doing simply because they’re following a course or what are they not doing simply because they don’t seem to be following, as a result of they do not wish to or as a result of they don’t seem to be understanding? How can we decipher it? And I feel it is exhausting, particularly with non-speaking children, is there actually a dependable option to measure that?
00:03:48 Brittney: As a result of I may let you know like, grade 2 no matter and I give them a alternative of 4 issues and perhaps they’re pointing to the suitable factor as a result of they know level however they do not know essentially the idea like level to the blue ball and perhaps they know ball however they do not know blue and I really feel like following instructions that was similar to happening this rabbit gap of it is such a giant umbrella like is it an government functioning piece is it just like the vocabulary that they don’t seem to be understanding is it propositions like I feel there are such a lot of shifting elements and it is simply so normal. So, yeah, I acquired a bit bit previous the compliance-based half, however it was simply happening this complete rabbit gap of following instructions.
00:04:26 Hallie: And I discover so typically as SLPs, particularly in a school-age setting, in a college like we’re like, we have to assist our college students with following instructions, we have to work on following instructions. And it is like, I’ve SLPs in the highschool setting, like I am nonetheless engaged on following instructions. And such as you stated, there’s a lot extra concerned than simply the instructions piece. And also you look, dive deeper into like, why are they struggling? And in addition, what’s most helpful for them?
00:04:53 Brittney: Yeah. And I feel that folks focus a lot on following instructions. And we’re forgetting, like how necessary it’s to additionally train self advocacy, as a result of should you’re going an excessive amount of compliance based mostly, then and okay, they only are immediate dependent after which they will advocate for themselves once we’re not with them. So I am looking for a bit little bit of a steadiness of how do I train. They’re going to like, what are the items of that that I would like to show? However how do I not make it? You are doing this as a result of I am telling you to do it, however you are doing this since you perceive it.
00:05:26 Hallie: And for these listening that may not be as acquainted, what does it imply? Like what, what, yeah, what’s compliance? And like, in case somebody’s not acquainted, I am like, what’s like problem with that.
00:05:36 Brittney: I feel I’d say compliance is rather like, you’re doing one thing as a result of someone is telling you to do it. Like go rise up and get, I do not know, the inexperienced crayon, okay, you are going and also you’re doing that as a result of they’re telling you to try this. And so I feel it creates a difficulty if you’re simply doing issues solely since you’re being informed to do it, and also you’re not likely advocating. So I’ve considered one of my greatest objectives this 12 months that I am working with a child on, like, he’ll, he is aware of the motor plan to press, like, I need Mickey Mouse toys, however I need him to have the ability to ask for assist. Like, I need him to have the ability to say cease, and if we’re always simply saying, oh, I need you to make requests, and I need you to do all the things I am telling you to do, then he isn’t going to have these different expertise. So I’m engaged on that. Oh, I need you to make requests and I need you to do all the things I am telling you to do, then he isn’t going to have these different expertise. So I’m engaged on.
00:06:26 Hallie: I like that. I like that you just like wished the self advocacy is so necessary so typically, particularly with like AAC college students and nonverbal college students. We wish like, what are we aside from requesting? What can we work on? And it is like self advocacy, rejection, like all these issues. Like, I find it irresistible. Are you able to share a bit extra, such as you stated, like how are some ways in which you want are educating that, like engaged on that?
00:06:52 Brittney: So I feel a extremely good instance from immediately was like, trigger I am very youngster led, so it is exhausting to be like, create a situation. Like I am unable to simply artificially create a situation. They don’t seem to be like motivating and it would not make sense to them. So immediately I had a scholar, I used to be making an attempt to place the toys away and he was pushing my hand away.
00:07:14 Brittney: So when he was pushing my hand away, I used to be modeling on a tool like, cease. Oh, you need me to cease, okay. After which he did do it himself, which I used to be so completely satisfied as a result of I have been engaged on that for some time. After which one other one might be like, oh, I am making an attempt to suit this toy. He actually wished this toy to enter one thing. I wish to make it and it wasn’t becoming. So I used to be modeling assist, assist. Like in these circumstances the place I would like, or I would like a break after I’m noticing that they are getting dysregulated, I am simply modeling it on a tool for them. And finally immediately we get to see the progress, which is so superior.
00:07:50 Hallie: And I like that. And I like that you just stated, such as you need not orchestrate a situation. It is simply taking these moments as they arrive. I imply, just like the youngster led, and so they most likely makes planning simpler, proper? Does not or not it’s planning simpler if you’re simply following the kid lead?
00:08:08 Brittney: Yeah, 100%. I at all times am making an attempt to inform folks that I am at all times like, I promise you, will make your planning a lot much less and a lot simpler if you simply must determine issues out on the fly, as a result of after the time you propose one thing after which they do not wish to try this anyway. So you need to determine it out. And it appears to me a lot time planning sensible.
00:08:30 Hallie: We love that. And hey, we’re all searching for simply methods and make issues a bit bit simpler. So simply to bounce again on like the next course stuff. Ball and course objectives are often focused in like a decontextualized method. Are you able to discuss a bit bit extra about making extra generalized and ways in which you wish to work on it a bit bit extra?
00:08:51 Brittney: Yeah, I feel an instance, I at all times return to examples, which is how I consider issues greatest. However like, I keep in mind I used to be doing an exercise some time again and it was like first coloration the signal that yellow after which coloration the women hat pink. And I am like, properly, when in actual life, are you actually going to have to paint this after which coloration that? Like, that is not likely like that. How do you social gathering that over? So making it extra issues about like, oh, I’ve to love, take my AAC machine and my pencil and convey it with me.
00:05:36 Brittney: Like actual life issues that we do are like after I’m washing my palms, these are the steps or simply issues like exterior, I attempt to push in so much. So it is issues which are like within the classroom or perhaps it is throughout lunch after I’m consuming, like am I opening the bag after which I am doing one thing else? Like issues which are really relevant as a substitute of like, oh, first coloration this or first do that and issues that you just’re by no means gonna do in actual life.
00:09:51 Hallie: Why, you are not coloring two various things when somebody tells you to regularly?
00:09:54 Brittney: What’s that?
00:09:56 Hallie: I do not know. I try this on a regular basis. Individuals are telling me to paint random issues and I do it or pointing to random shapes in a guide. Like, yeah, in that sure order or clap my palms after which contact my head. Until I am taking part in Simon says, like, that is the one time I am ever doing these issues.
00:10:14 Brittney: Yeah, 100%. It is loopy.
00:10:17 Hallie: Now, satan’s advocate right here, some individuals will say, however they should get they get instructions within the classroom. So what would you say to one thing like that?
00:10:25 Brittney: I like that. I feel I’d say, let’s work on issues within the classroom as a substitute of, you understand, simply issues that are not actually generalizable. And I’d love to come back in query and I’m fortunate that I get to try this in my periods are one-on-one. It undoubtedly makes issues so much simpler, I’ll say. I do not know that I’d be capable to work on all these items in a gaggle the way in which that I do with particular person children.
00:10:53 Brittney: However yeah, I’d say let’s work on the issues within the classroom, nice. And like, I feel going again to that umbrella factor, like determining what a part of the course since you have been saying like individuals are nonetheless weren’t understanding within the first place to a normal?
00:11:08 Hallie: I like that. I may describe a bit bit. So such as you’re trying on the umbrella, all of the totally different items. After which what do you do with that data?
00:11:16 Brittney: I feel it is exhausting. I feel I am trying extra on the residing elements. Like, and I feel particularly, which was, I used to be so excited to speak to you about it. Trigger I feel it appears to be like so totally different after I’m making an attempt to determine my children who do not communicate what they’re understanding versus perhaps older highschool college students or children that do communicate. However I am taking a look at perhaps then I will isolate, can we simply do propositions alone? Can we simply do like this sure vocabulary alone? What does government functioning seem like alone? After which how can we perhaps like from there, how can we make that into like a following instructions that is particular to that idea?
00:12:00 Hallie: That is so true. And I feel that like that idea and breaking it down actually applies to all college students scuffling with fond instructions. So like reminiscence, there’s so many issues concerned, like consideration, our college students which are simply distracted. There’s so many issues that may come into play on the subject of fond instructions.
00:12:18 Brittney: Stone operating. I really feel like we’ve so many expressive language objectives. After which on the subject of receptive objectives, it is like everybody’s are following course. It is greater. There’s extra to that.
00:12:29 Hallie: And we wish to at all times be certain that our objectives and our actions are related. And if we’re simply doing coloration this and coloration that, is it actually related to the world? And we wish to carry over, like so doing issues like our like, I at all times assume that if you’re figuring out on the fitness center, should you do arbitrary random workouts, you possibly can have random outcomes. It may be the identical factor with our speech. And so we do random actions. You are going to have random outcomes. It isn’t going to hold over. So.
00:12:58 Britney: 100%. I completely agree. Loads to do.
00:13:04 Hallie: Severely, severely. Yeah. So are you able to like share some like, you stated, like experiences differ, like we stated, such as you’re superior, extra superior learners, however like share a bit bit extra about like some issues that you’ve got observed, like together with your shoppers that you’ve got labored with.
00:13:21 Brittney: Yeah, I feel like a whole lot of it. And I do not assume it is simply to love talking and non-speaking or older and youthful, there’s a whole lot of shifting elements to it. However I simply am considering in my children who do not communicate, it is actually exhausting to evaluate what they’re understanding. Actually, I am unable to say, are you having bother with this? Or I am saying, or I’ve an instance. Certainly one of my AAC customers, she is going to like after I’m pointing to one thing on a tool, it is like a gestural cue. She is going to click on it, however is he clicking it as a result of he understands what the icon means? Or is he clicking it as a result of he is aware of that after I’m pointing to one thing that implies that that is what you need to level to, simply because he is been, that is been sowing greens in him.
00:14:12 Brittney: Or like after I say, oh, let’s go to speech, like I discover that even when I am not saying let’s go to speech, my children are arising and going with me anyway, as a result of they know, they see my face and so they’re like, oh, let’s go play. However then you definitely put in that course of like, let’s go to speech. And I am like, however are they really understanding that? Like, I do not know. So I at all times presume competence. I am at all times presuming that they’re understanding me, however how do I measure these shifting items and all these elements? I do not know the way, whereas like a few of my different children, I might be capable to sit down and say to them, okay, discuss by way of it, a few of these increased degree language stuff, however for these children, it is tremendous exhausting.
00:14:51 Brittney: And so I assume. I even have a query for you. Like how do you write following direct? Like how do you assume that if I used to be working with older or talking children, like how do you take a look at all of these various things? What does that seem like?
00:15:08 Hallie: So I discover, particularly as I become older, like I do not even write following instructions objectives. Truthfully, I incorporate it not directly in my periods and it is extra self-advocacy self and compensatory methods, like, okay, what can we do if you’re in school and also you miss what the instructor stated, like, hey, you simply heard a course that appeared very complicated, what are some issues you would have performed, like let’s hear for some key phrases and attempt to like, infer what the instructor was speaking about.
00:15:38 Hallie: And in addition there’s a whole lot of instructor coaching concerned, like, hey, you’ve college students with language difficulties in your classroom, let’s have simplified instructions, let’s have some visible aids. Like paired with the verbal instruction. So it is a whole lot of different issues versus, hello, I nonetheless have a 14 12 months previous nonetheless engaged on following instructions. Like in the event that they have not gotten it but, and like, why are we gonna drill it? That is when our college students are coming, once they’re 14, 15, 16, they’re like, I do not wanna be there, trigger I am sick and bored with engaged on the identical factor. And it isn’t getting to love one attending to the foundation of the issue, but in addition like let’s assist them compensate for that problem.
00:16:19 Brittney: Yeah, I like that. Let’s discover one other method. When issues aren’t working in any method, it is like, properly, let’s simply attempt one thing totally different. And that was such a great level as a result of I used to be speaking to… She is an autistic advocate, Chloe Estelle. And he or she was speaking about how typically we’re simply not going to have these expertise. And we have been making an attempt so exhausting. She gave the instance of tying your shoe. And we have been making an attempt so exhausting and so exhausting. However at what level are we similar to, let’s get Velcro footwear?
00:16:48 Brittney: She’s similar to, typically like these expertise simply, it is actually exhausting and typically we will not hop in any respect. So I like that. I like that you just stated that. And I attempted so exhausting this 12 months. I did not make one following course. I used to be like, I am not going to do it. However like in class, it is exhausting. It’s a must to write receptive language objectives. Or at the least I did. And I used to be actually scuffling with that. However I feel I did it. No, no following course. And I discovered like, if they do not want it, one.
00:17:13 Hallie: You need not write it. And two, is that what’s most going to profit them? Sure, like they could want that assist. They want a objective essentially. You may work on issues not directly when you’re doing different objectives. And I used to be that means to say to your scholar about coming to speech, I’d even, you possibly can take a look at that like, that comprehension of that’s, change it up at some point and that child, hey, let’s go to the workplace. Let’s go to the nurse first. Are they listening? Now granted, they’re going to most likely throw off the routine and so they’ll be like, no matter, however, yeah, that is a option to actually see like, are they like listening to the instruction or are they only seeing my face and simply following alongside?
00:17:55 Brittney: Yeah, they get to the speech room earlier than I do. So I am like, let’s go someplace else who even is aware of what would occur. However I additionally I am desirous about considered one of my children who has a PDA profile like that pathological demand. I feel it is extra affirming to say pervasive, pervasive. I am forgetting the precise phrase proper now. However like that, if you say if you inform them a directive, like they actually do not wish to do it. And so then if I am making an attempt to make my objective, if my complete session is following course college, then my child goes to be so dysregulated as a result of I am telling them to do one thing and so they do not wish to be informed to do issues. And so then I am getting even much less out of it. Like, it is simply not price it to me to dysregulate them and to love waste all of that point that we could possibly be engaged on different issues.
00:18:44 Hallie: That is so necessary to acknowledge, everybody listening, that like a few of your college students, like how they could reply to a few of these prompts and requests and issues that you just’re engaged on that you will find yourself getting the work performed after, you understand, like what’s extra helpful to show that scholar the way to say, I do not wish to. Versus them really like pointing to the blue ball or no matter.
00:19:12 Brittney: One hundred percent. Yeah, it is so exhausting.
There’s so many layers.
00:19:19 Hallie: What else would you wish to share with everybody listening who is likely to be desirous to perhaps study extra about like childbirth remedy, neurodivergent, you understand, neurodiversity affirming motion, something about instructions? What else would you wish to share with everybody listening?
00:19:33 Brittney: That is an ideal query. I at all times have a lot to say. I feel that I’d simply say like there is no hurt in making an attempt to see what works. I feel that like even in grad college, I had a professor be like, okay, I’ll throw you off now and you are not going to plan any of the session. And I used to be like, oh, my God, like so loopy. However like you need to have the talents to have the ability to work on the fly. And I am like, simply attempt it, simply attempt it and see what occurs, as a result of I feel that like for me, at the least I attempted it and I used to be like, oh, that is so a lot better and it feels higher.
00:20:10 Brittney: And I feel that is the largest factor is like I used to be being informed to do sure issues that I used to be like, this simply would not sit proper with me. After which I noticed, oh, there’s what I found out, like neurodivergent. And I used to be like, yeah, that is as a result of it wasn’t like or it wasn’t proper. So I’d say like if it would not really feel proper in your intestine and if there’s a solution to the why, I used to be at all times asking, why is she shifting her head round like this or why are they leaping up and down? Why are they throwing themselves on the ground? And there was by no means a solution.
00:20:36 Brittney: And so I really feel like with neuro affirming and like youngster led and all of this, there’s like I get the reply. Oh, with the sensory, one thing sensory sensible is happening or emotion sensible is happening. So I really feel like as soon as I’ve a solution and issues felt proper in my intestine, this all made sense to me.
00:20:55 Hallie: I find it irresistible. And I find it irresistible that you just’re so obsessed with it and also you share about it on social. The place can everybody discover you on social media and study extra about what you’re sharing and preaching and advocating for?
00:21:09 Brittney: Yeah, my Instagram and TikTok is NYCSLPB, a mouthful, however simply New York Metropolis SLPB.
00:21:18 Hallie: I find it irresistible.
00:21:19 Brittney: The opposite one was already taken.
00:21:21 Hallie: Oh, come on.
00:21:22 Brittney: Simply kidding.
00:21:25 Hallie: I find it irresistible. Effectively, I at all times finish my episodes with a joke as a result of jokes are enjoyable, construct these languages and construct your poor. So why did the scholar throw her be careful of the varsity window?
00:21:38 Brittney: Effectively, I do not know the way we would like.
00:21:42 Hallie: She wished to see time fly.
00:21:44 Brittney: I find it irresistible. I acquired it. I’ve to inform my dad that one.
00:21:49 Hallie: These are corny dad jokes, guys. Okay.
00:21:52 Brittney: I find it irresistible.
00:21:54 Hallie: All proper. These jokes are right here each week, guys. For those who get them each Monday on my episodes, you possibly can inform your college students these jokes, you possibly can take credit score for them. I do not care as a result of I did not make them up. I discovered them on the Web. So properly, thanks, Brittney. Everybody go test her out on Instagram. If in case you have, let’s ship her a message, say hello. Tell us what you considered this episode. Inform a pal that is likely to be questioning about engaged on following instructions. Possibly somebody desirous to study extra about child-led remedy or neuroaffirming remedy, all that stuff. Undoubtedly test her out. Let’s share it with a pal. And till subsequent week, everybody, keep out of bother.
00:22:39 Hallie: Thanks a lot for tuning in to a different episode of SLP Espresso Speak. It means the world to me that you just’re tuning in every week and getting the jolt of inspiration you want. You’ll find all the hyperlinks and knowledge talked about on this episode at my web site, speechtimefun.com. Do not forget to observe the present so you do not miss any future episodes.
00:23:04 Hallie: And when you’re there, it might imply the world to me should you would take a couple of seconds and go away me an sincere evaluation. See you subsequent week with one other episode filled with enjoyable and inspiration from one SLP to a different. Have enjoyable guys!
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